How Health Systems Can Make the Most of Their Healthcare CRM

Stewart Gandolf

Hello, everyone. Today I am so excited to interview Laura Lee Jones from LionShare. She is CEO right, Laura Lee?

Laura Lee Jones

Correct. CEO.

Stewart Gandolf

So, and founder, I believe. She has a highly respected firm in the CEO business. She's worked with hundreds of sorry. The CRM. Business. She's worked with hundreds of hospitals over the years. So welcome, Laura Lee, I'm super excited to have you.

Laura Lee Jones

Thanks, Stewart. I'm super excited that I got invited to answer some questions and have a fun chat with you today.

Stewart Gandolf

I can't believe I've never gotten around to talking to you before I buy this medium. It's like you're like, kind of a big deal on this.

Laura Lee Jones

No, not a big deal. Wild and crazy, and forward.

Stewart Gandolf

Great, awesome. So, Laura Lee, I'd love to hear from you 1st of all for listeners that may not be familiar with your firm. You know. What does LionShare do you? You know, just like just a little I guess words story of you in terms of LionShare. And the company what it does. And we'll get into more detail after that.

Laura Lee Jones

Okay, that sounds good. Lion share was founded in 1995. So we are in our 30th year, and we serve the healthcare industry. And I tell people we do 3 things at lion share number one. We build big databases and those databases can include multiple audiences, patients, prospects, your board of directors, your employees, your foundation members. Anything that the healthcare system wants to be included in this database can be included. So, we put this database together we merge it, we cleanse it, and then we add a lot of additional data on it: demographic, psychographic. We do some modeling and risk scoring.

And then once we build that database, we put software on top of the database, and that software in our world is called CRM, customer relationship management. And we can do front-end analytics on all of those individuals in that database to determine who would be the best audience for a particular campaign and then we can pull those audiences, put them through a marketing automation program again, code them, score them, and then send out a multitude of messages through a variety of channels and work on driving some good ROI. And then the 3rd thing we do. So, we've got the database built the software to do all the front-end analytics the back end ROI. The 3rd thing is for every client we wrap what LionShare calls a Smart Team around every client. So, we just don't license software, clean your database and disappear. We stay with our clients and walk hand in hand with them on their journey through CRM and help them determine what would be the best campaigns? What are their strategic goals for the year? How can we help get to those strategic goals and get to some good numbers for the client. So that's what LionShare does and has been doing for 30 years.

Stewart Gandolf

That's awesome. So, the that actually just gave me another couple of questions to ask you. Just I guess the 1st thing is, where did you get that inspiration? 1995 is a long time ago like, that's pretty innovative like, how did you? How did you come up with this idea to do this like that?

Laura Lee Jones

So, I had been working in the healthcare industry, doing campaigns and marketing not necessarily CRM at that time, and I was managing another firm and doing business development for about 10 years, and I was escorted out of the building. So, it took me about 4 days to come up with the name and the logo, and the decision to take the LionShare of the clients with me. So that's how it started. I had no intent on starting a business. I loved my job. I loved what I did. But so that's how I started, and originally line share was much more direct mail focused and then not after too long, we were asked, can we prove ROI? So that's how we got into getting the data, studying the data and proving that if we were communicating with Laura Lee Jones and her family, did they actually come in and utilize services which then led to, hey there's a company out there in the market. That's doing front-end analytics. Can we better determine who to contact for what service line? So that's really was? We had 2 larger clients that pushed us into the CRM arena. So, both that front end and back end analytics of the data.                                     

Stewart Gandolf

Oh, that's great. That totally makes sense. So, and that's interesting, because ‘95 is a very different world then.

Laura Lee Jones

Yeah we didn't have the Internet. We didn't have a fax machine. Copy machines were prevalent. But any contract work was done by overnight services.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah.

Laura Lee Jones

It was very different than now, and that is instantaneous. Now, everybody wants everything right now, you know it's a year contract. Did you sign it? Yeah. So, we always had a couple of days when we were overnighting things proof for art or contract work.

Stewart Gandolf

I remember it's funny because I stumbled into healthcare right about the same time. And it's very, very different. So cool. So, you know, like the term CRM, is something that people use a lot, I'm not sure but he fully understands what a CRM is, or they may have their own sort of interpretation or filter. So, I guess, what does it mean to you? And what does it mean to healthcare leaders today? We've talked about the definition a little bit. But can you expand upon that please?

Laura Lee Jones

Absolutely. 1st of all, I want to say, I wish there was a different acronym than CRM, because I think it was a good acronym in the start, but I don't think it's a good one right now where we're at in 2025. However, our world, our healthcare marketers know CRM at a very basic level at a minimum, and they know that they need it. So, we've looked at trying to call it something else other than CRM. But so far we haven't come up with anything. And so, to me, what CRM means in the healthcare world is different than like an organizational CRM is “just talk to Stewart, he wants to do a podcast call him back in 2 weeks.” And we can work on the topic and then set up a task to follow up with you. So, it's more of a 1 to one communication tool operationally, I guess, I would say, and LionShare offers an analytical CRM, so we're doing one to many. So, using me as an example, Laura Lee Jones is a senior athlete. She is likely to need a new knee that has been worked on several times. So, a healthcare system can look into their CRM patient database and view all of the patient data on Laura Lee Jones, and determine she might be a really good candidate to go to a knee replacement seminar and attend it. Learn what it's about. But we looked into the database, and we found another 15,000 people that look like Laura Lee Jones in our neighborhood that are candidates in that database for a knee replacement. So, our CRM is much more analytical in nature. On the front-end, we're doing a lot of studying and identifying a larger group and then setting that campaign up omni-channel campaign in most instances to go out to thousands of people.                                

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah. So, it's funny. Because, you know, we talk about a lot when I'm speaking or doing different things about you know, just the basic fundamentals of marketing. So, for example, you know, most marketers will talk about the product versus I mean sorry the the promotion. They never stop their key product, or what the place of delivery is, they just they jump straight to promotion. In this case, what we're talking about is your best customer is always a current customer, which in this case is a patient right? Somebody you already have a relationship with. And you know.

Laura Lee Jones

Oftentimes, yeah, or they're not a patient, but we need to attract them so we can get them into our system and show them how great we are and keep them and their family in the system for a long, a long time.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, for sure. And so, there's gold in that data, right? And that's the thing is how.

Laura Lee Jones

There is.

Stewart Gandolf

That helping them leverage and find that in a cost effective and efficient way. So, the you know, like, so on that note, then, when you know we have a strong CRM, how does that change what hospital marketing teams can do? And then, also, by the way I've had hospitals that I've referred to you guys on. They're like, Oh, we just would love to. We just can't afford it. So, like, tell us more about what does it enable? And how do they, by the extra expense.

Laura Lee Jones

So, 1st of all, in today's world, you really have to have a CRM, I mean, you need to have a way not just to find the right people to spend your marketing dollars on but to also eliminate people that have said, Do not talk to me, don't send me anything, so suppressions are equally important in today's world of privacy. So that's another reason to encourage people to get a CRM system. But what is possible? And how do you justify the expense? Is the proof in marketing. So, we can say we've communicated to 15,000 people that look like Laura Lee Jones, because that's also a big part of the CRM. Is finding these audiences and building these audiences. So, here's all the people that look like Laura Lee Jones. Here's the journey they've had. And here's the journey they had post campaign. They came to the seminar; we email nurtured them or even called them. And then they actually came in and they made a phone call, had an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon. And then, lo and behold! Several months later they actually had a knee replacement, so they can justify the investment by looking at case studies and looking at ROI from other healthcare systems around that are doing it.

Stewart Gandolf

So, when you talk about there may be some people on the listening in that are familiar with the idea of lookalike audiences on Facebook or other forms of lookalike. What kinds of compliance things do you need to be aware of with this? Obviously, you know, you're going to sign a BAA as a partner. But what other things that are really sort of basics that we need to think about for compliance.

Laura Lee Jones

Yeah, well, there's so many rules to compliance, and they're changing all the time, and many of the rules have a bit of grayness to them. And it depends on the healthcare system and how they view those rules. We have some healthcare systems that at this point today's age will not even use email to communicate and educate their population, which is crazy to me because you can educate, you can tell someone you can't say your BMI is this. So, we should talk bariatrics. But you can talk about being healthy, having a healthy weight. And here's experts, and there's a bariatric seminar coming up. If you or someone in your family is interested in it. So, a lot of the compliance is determined by each organization and how far they will go with CRM and those communications is, that is, that helpful and understand.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah.

Laura Lee Jones

And even what tracking mechanisms can be used, and how you can retarget and not retarget. And what does that look like?

Stewart Gandolf

So, it's interesting. We have a client that's doing some STD testing. And they were talking about direct mail. And it's like that is really gonna be perceived as intrusive. And you know that. So, the medium matters right, sometimes depending on the topic, the medium matters. And so.

Laura Lee Jones

Yeah. And the copy and I'm direct mail is still very successful. We do a millions and millions of direct mail pieces every year.

Stewart Gandolf

Oh, I'm totally a fan. I've done, you know, earlier in my career I probably did. I don't know 500 million pieces for credit cards. So, I've done. Although a lot of people today, just, you know, never experienced direct mail at all. And so, it's like it's a totally untapped opportunity. So, sticking with that, then do you find that different media, like direct mail, does seem more personal? So is that a creative issue that you when you're dealing with more sensitive topics, because if it's perceived as targeting me because I'm fat, or you're targeting me because I have cancer, or whatever it could really be a challenge. So is that a creative solve or?

Laura Lee Jones

Art, the art and science of marketing. The science is more the data finding out. Who do we want to target and why we want to target. And the art is, what are we? Gonna what is the message going to look like? What is it going to sound like? Do you or a loved one. And then, as we build these personas or look alike audiences, they're called many different things clusters you know. There are certain groups of people that will not respond to anything healthcare related. I mean, you could have a finger cut off, and then they might go to the emergency room to get that. But so, a lot of the development of the audiences is what we do here, and determining who would be good to talk to if you will communicate, and then what would be the best way to communicate with them? And your CRM. Is vital for that as well. So, if Laura Lee Jones says, Hey, I'm a tree hugger. Don't send me any direct mail, but you can certainly text me, or you can email me because I do want to know about all these health programs, or I want to know about your new life center, whatever it is, or I want to volunteer or donate. But I don't want you to send me direct mail. So that's another critical part of the CRM. Is making sure we're coding and keeping the preferences of each individual on that database.

Stewart Gandolf

That's great. So going back to ROI, that's a term that gets thrown around a lot in marketing, you know. How do you define? True, ROI, you know plain English, and what's your advice for holding teams accountable to it?

Laura Lee Jones

Yep, so it's really simple. It's the profit made from your marketing efforts. So, showing the revenue and profit you got from your marketing spend and it also shows ROI also. It gives evidence to your C-suite that this marketing is working, and one of the things that we recommend is to only take the marketing, the lift over and above the control group which a CFO might say, Hey, these people are going to come anyway, no matter what. So, when we do a marketing effort, we withhold a control group and then we only take credit that return on investment over and above that control group, and what their ROI looked like. So that really helps prove that marketing works. And I think another big piece of it that LionShared does often is we speak to the CFO. And we say, here's what we're going to do. Here's the formula, here's how we approach. ROI. Are you in agreement, or do you want to look at it a different way. They might say we had 40 of these cases last year. So, and we really want 65. These cases. So, LionShare can take credit for those additional cases. So, we want to have a conversation on the front end. What does success look like? How are we going to measure it? Okay, that formula and those numbers and what it looks like. So, on the front end, we try to get that.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that's such a basic concept in marketing. I can think of a client specifically this year where they had a hundred 1 million dollar problem to solve and ran ads for a couple of weeks. And they, you thought, we're gonna solve this problem with a couple of ads. You know, it's like you really have to get on the same page with expectations. What's realistic at the beginning? So I love that.

Laura Lee Jones

Want to get to oops. Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt that individual level. So, if we're targeting Laura Lee Jones, or whoever we're targeting. It's great to know that they opened it. They clicked on it. They shared it with a friend. But what we're looking for is measure way deeper than that. That's just the top of the funnel measurement. You know how many clicks lead to how many patients on the table for that procedure. So, we're going to track that all the way through the funnel from clicks, you know, impressions open, shared, to called and made an appointment to actual time having a medical encounter.

Stewart Gandolf

That's 1 of the things I love about. When we have a database to work with. A lot of our clients don't when they do to be able to track it back to the patient. Did they actually have the surgery or not? What was the contribution to margin from that.

Laura Lee Jones

Yep.

Stewart Gandolf

That's really helpful. So let's talk.

Laura Lee Jones

That mark that attribution to marketing channel. So, we'll test. We'll do direct mail email social. Which of them drives the higher return on investment who drives the most patients. And then what's the value of that patient by channel? So being able to do that attribution at that very ground level is really critical to our clients, because we'll say you ran these ads and did this, and you drove 2 people where your direct mail effort drove 345 people in. So, let's not spend it on those ads or digital did better than direct mail. They're all different. So, we want to just. There's no bad marketing as long as you're measuring, because every time you try something, if you measure it, then you can make another decision down the road on your next marketing campaign.

Stewart Gandolf

Yep.

Laura Lee Jones

That's wiser.

Stewart Gandolf

That totally makes sense. So, any other comments on that versus sort of traditional direct. I mean that we've kind of covered it. But anything else on the sort of digital tracking versus the way you guys are doing it. Any other additional thoughts on that.

Laura Lee Jones

No, just to make sure that you're using the proper codes and tags along the journey, so that we can actually identify that person. That's, you know, jumping onto a landing page and then tracking them all the way through the system. Yeah, because healthcare people don't really want to use healthcare. They want to be healthy. They don't want to have to go to the doctor. They don't want to have to use the emergency room, so we often can't incent someone to go to the hospital or healthcare system until they have a need. I mean, we work a lot on wellness and taking care of ourselves on the front end and getting those core measurements done. So, we have a baseline. But remember, people really don't want to use healthcare services. So, making sure we're tracking all the way through is really critical.

Stewart Gandolf

And it's interesting in our business these days, like the technologies we love when our clients have a CRM and recommended often when they don't. We still do digital tracking technologies are so much better for online and offline with AI assisted and different things that are happening now. So, it's an exciting time. But you know, Nirvana for us always is when we can track it back to actual patients, because then we can prove that the actual dollar is not just a bunch of patient inquiries.

Laura Lee Jones

Yes.

Stewart Gandolf

Which is ideal.

Laura Lee Jones

Yes, and we want to know that we want to know that it went beyond a phone call to ask when the seminar is. We want them in there, or whatever we're selling, whatever we're promoting.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you know another thing talking about. You've been doing this for 30 years, and there have been some names that have kind of come and gone in the CRM space. As you know.

Laura Lee Jones

We joke about it around here.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah.

Laura Lee Jones

And we joke about the acquisitions of companies that have changed their name 3 times in 5 years.

Stewart Gandolf

So. yeah, yeah, there's a few tombstones out there are. So how would you say that broadly, the landscape has changed, and you know, what should organizations be thinking about? Now?

Laura Lee Jones

I think it's really there's a lot that's still the same. It's crazy to me that a lot of organizations, the C-suite does not understand the value of a good CRM. Partner, there are newcomers to the market. The thing that I've always paid attention to is and I'm going to be super direct is the smoke and mirrors. And they, you know, you can tell a really good story about CRM and what you can do, what your organization can do. But the proof is in that detail. And so, I think if you're looking for a partner, you should make sure that you are getting really fair, good references and actual case studies with dollar amounts attached to it, and proof before you make a choice in a partner.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you know, like, and we talked about the confusion surrounding this topic. And you know, there's different levels of you know, you just mentioned about CEOs don't understand the value. There's a lot of things CEOs may understand the value of marketing right? So healthcare is funny, because, you know, going back to your CFO comment a little while ago. It's like we'd get those patients, anyway. That's like a really common objection.

Laura Lee Jones

They’re really common.

Stewart Gandolf

And you know, or you know, a lot of times, we'll say, Well, wait. Okay. You're getting, you know 2 million dollars of patients free, but you could spend a hundred 1,000 to get another 2 million. I know you didn't have to pay for those, but would you prefer to have them or not?

Laura Lee Jones

Well, yeah and I think the other part is targeting, which patients. So there's certain service lines that are more of a loss leader. And knowing, you know, you have a set amount of marketing dollars. Where are we gonna put that, you know? Is there? 1st of all, are your operations set and ready for us to drive people in that door? Whatever service line it is. And then is there space for the volume we're gonna drive right? Just do, or do they own the market? Are they 95% of the market owner. And it just doesn't make sense to try to grow that 5%. And how much do they want to spend in marketing dollars to grow that 5%? Or are there other service lines that we should be putting our marketing dollars towards.

Stewart Gandolf

So, tell me about the continuum of you know people that are new to CRM, and as time evolves and they mature with, you know the experience of it like, what do you find? And where are you know which organizations tend to get more advanced which tend to stay in the same place. Do you have any comments on that? Because I'm you know there's it's a tool you can use a lot or a little, and I'm guessing you might have some people at the beginning who buy it and never use it for a year. So, tell me about that.

Laura Lee Jones

Or 2 years. 1st of all, it is complicated. I mean it. It is very. If all we did was build databases, that would be a good product for LionShare to deliver. I mean mashing these databases and keeping them clean and updated is it's the heavy, heavy lift that's a lot of the magic sauce in CRM, so imagine here in Kansas City, Laura Lee Jones, I'm a resident here. I'm a patient at my local hospital. I'm also on the board at the local hospital. I'm a donor to them. I donate, and I also volunteer my time. So, just understanding who I am inside that database really is important to the campaigns we're going to give to Laura Lee Jones or anybody else. So, you can be multiple things in it. You can be a physician at a hospital and a patient at the hospital, and a donor, and all these other things, and still a prospect in some other service line. So, what I'm trying to say is, it's very complicated, and I think because it's complicated. It's frightening. So, I see all aspects of clients. I see clients that are very mature, and they may be ready to step away from a partner like LionShare and bring it in-house. Perhaps they have identified the team members needed the talent needed. And they're gonna build a CRM team internally, or they just have learned about CRM, and they're a smaller organization, and they need someone like LionShare to come alongside them and really handhold them through the whole thing. So some of those prospects or clients. We're gonna start with one service line pilot campaign. whereas someone who's in a more mature place they might be doing 50-100 campaigns a month. I mean. It's just. It's all. It's kinda all over the place. Still, 30 years later.

Stewart Gandolf

Not surprising to me, and one thing brought up earlier was walking with the through with the client. So there is another CRM out there that begins with an S that is really difficult to work with. You know they don't have you know. You have to go hire them and to hire somebody else to implement, and then you have to. And so, you're on your own.

Laura Lee Jones

I know who you're speaking of so I think, no matter who you choose. One of the biggest things you should understand is, and someone mentioned this on a talk I was on about 2 months ago. It's a team sport you really need the C-suite involved the IT department involved the marketing team involved, and you have to determine what is the goal? What are the first, you know, couple of goals that you want to go after? Then decide who's the best partner for you. It's not go buy or license software, and then decide, what are we going to do with it? The decision of ‘Why do we need it now?’ should come first, and then who's the best partner for us?

Stewart Gandolf

I love the position you guys have in the market because I could see like, if somebody's getting into a CRM. They've never used it before. They don't know what they don't know. So, it's like really hard, because you're looking at like the wrong side of the wrong side of the problem. If all you're thinking about is the software.

Laura Lee Jones

Yeah, it's exactly. And then there's a lot more to it than that. Yeah, yeah. We put that Smart Team alongside every client, no matter where they're at in their CRM. Journey. We put a smart team next to them, and so that we can identify pitfalls and best practices. And I mean, the whole team here is as direct as I am. If somebody tries to go the wrong way, we're going to say, don't do that. We've tested that we've done tests on it for 5 years. Here's the direction you should go. So, I think that's another aspect of LionShare. That is, that's a good thing when you're looking for a partner is, they can again hold your hand and walk you through the journey.

Stewart Gandolf

So, the, we kind of touched on this a moment ago, like one of the big problems in SaaS of anybody or any SaaS company is you know, they don't implement. It's really have a hard time getting it off the ground, or they're not successful. They had huge expectations. So, what have you learned about that like, how would you help people, you know, set expectations internally? That's actually another thing I'm just talking about like a minute ago, like, just as an aside, you know, they want to get to these huge numbers like in the 1st week. It's like we don't have an ad yet.

Laura Lee Jones

Yes, like, let's try to set expectations. So what's reasonable? What? What expectations are reasonable.

Stewart Gandolf

How do you get the value if you're not getting to that.

Laura Lee Jones

So, we guarantee a 65 business day implementation. So, and the reason we can do that is we are super processed out, and we know exactly what those steps are from the discovery to the statement of work. And so, once that statement of work is signed and we're both parties are in agreement of what we're doing while we're building that database. We are also the smart team is working with the client. What are we gonna launch on day one. So those things are happening in parallel. So, we're not waiting till the database is built, and then we're going to talk about. What are we going to launch for campaigns? So, I think that's a differentiator. I think. Also, with some of these other, they don't build their own databases. We build all of them in house here in Kansas City, so they might not be being built here. And there's a lot of communication that has to go on outside of that organization, or you have to go buy a database building company after you lease software.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah.

Laura Lee Jones

And I think you don't know what you don't know. Everybody says we need CRM, so, and it's a big nut to crack like, what do you need it for?

Stewart Gandolf

Right? Right? So, I totally agree. And again, it's when you don't know what you don't know. It's scary. And then you've got regulations. You've got internal politics.

Laura Lee Jones

Yes.

Stewart Gandolf

And then, you know, also, like you recommend this thing. Nobody uses it. Then it's your you're the one that looks bad as you're the employee at the office.

Laura Lee Jones

Which is why we really want people to use it. I mean, we know this industry. I've been in it 30 years. A lot of chief marketing officers have purchased a CRM system that sat idle for 2 or 3 years. Well, they're not going to go back to the market and say, Hey, I bought this, but they could never get the partner could never get it off the ground. Because their job they're like, why'd you hire them? Why didn't you hire someone else? So, there's a lot of shush talk happening in the marketplace about how long it took to get a campaign off the ground.

Stewart Gandolf

It is really funny. That's something that even for our agency we find all the time is we want to get in market as fast as we, possibly because they may be doing, you know, on a pale path, SEO, or they may be doing branding, or whatever. But people get impatient, really quickly, and you've got to get results quickly and get.

Laura Lee Jones

And we need to know the priorities of the organization.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, for sure.

Laura Lee Jones

So, having that in place and in our hands is really helpful for us to have a successful launch. The database build is, although I said the biggest part and challenging, we have that down. It's what are we going to do once it's built. Who are we going to go after. And what does that journey look like? And even more importantly, how do we know when we touch that individual 8 times in a year? And where's the drop off point? And what do we want to talk to them about? Because we don't wanna inundate them with hundreds of messages.

Stewart Gandolf

So I want to ask you a bonus question.

Laura Lee Jones

A bonus question!

Stewart Gandolf

Yes, I do. One that we hadn't planned to talk about.

Laura Lee Jones

Does this give me the A+?

Stewart Gandolf

You've already got an a plus? You're just lapping it now. You’re just showing off, Laura Lee. So, one thing that I just it's topical for me we're talking about now, one of our hospital systems, and we're working with there is the. And this is actually a blind spot for me, because I'm so ROI driven that I forget about sometimes just the ego part of like being able to communicate. So, I'm just curious on your side. Obviously you're driving ROI. But if a hospital is suddenly able to give the orthopedic department what they've been asking for that exposure, or the cancer department, or whatever is that also part of this decision? Because you're building volume by service line.

Laura Lee Jones

Yes.

Stewart Gandolf

Sometimes that's very real in a hospital.

Laura Lee Jones

Yeah, no, it's very real. And I mean, I'm often in those meetings where we're talking to, you know, the director or the leader of a particular service line. And we've had those conversations early on. What is it you want us to drive? Like, what's reasonable? If we drove a hundred people in next month. Can you manage them? So that is part of the story often is on the front end. What service lines are we going to drive? What particular procedures are we going to drive? And then what does success mean? If and we might have to shut a campaign off. And we've had to do that multiple times. One recently comes to mind as we were driving lung screenings and we drove so many that they couldn't screen all the patients. So now we're talking about it. Not great, patient experience. So how do we throttle back on that and hold off before we start campaigning again. So, all of that is part of the journey.

Stewart Gandolf

I'm curious, do you? I'm very familiar to working in hospitals and health systems. Do you work in any other verticals or strictly hospitals and health.

Laura Lee Jones

95%, I mean, we pretty much are healthcare. We’ve done some other things, auditing for some financial institutions and things like that, some clinical trials for some pharma companies, but pretty much everything we do is very focused for healthcare system.

Stewart Gandolf

Alright, very good. Any last comments or thoughts.

Laura Lee Jones

No, you were right. This was gonna be fun! This was fun, he said. It's going to be fun. And it was fun.

Stewart Gandolf

I promise. I keep my promises, Laura. So, how should people contact your firm if they're interested in knowing more.

Laura Lee Jones

You can find us at lionsharemarketing.com. You can call us at 1 800. 0h, my gosh! I don't know our number (913) 631-8400 is the phone number here. But you can find us online. Lionsharemarketing.com is the easiest.

Stewart Gandolf

Perfect, great Laura Lee, it was fun. I'll see you at the next conference.

Laura Lee Jones

Okay. Bye, Stewart thanks so much, have a good afternoon.

Stewart Gandolf

See you, bye-bye.